Episode Transcript
Kayleen Brown (00:01)
Hi everyone, I'm Kayleen Brown, and welcome back to another episode of the Device Talks Weekly podcast.
I have a full episode for you today. Newsmakers is back, and we'll hear from Andy Hansen, Global Director of Engineering at ATL Medical on the future of pulse field ablation and intravascular lithotrepsy. I gotta tell ya, Andy has a future narrating audiobooks.
I swear I could feel my autonomic nervous system regulate during that interview. From PFA and IVL, we'll talk about lung cancer, the leading cause of cancer death, and one that I am enormously impacted by. But this is why I do what I do and why I love this industry so much. For every story of heartbreak, there are 10 stories of innovators who are dedicated to solving that exact problem. And luckily for me, I got to speak with one of those innovators.
Joanna Nathan, CEO and co-founder for Prana Surgical, joins me in the studio to discuss Prana's approach for early lung cancer detection and right-sizing intervention in lung surgery.
But before we get into all of that, just a reminder to join me on next week's Device Talks Tuesdays featuring Blue Star Silicones. We'll walk through three. Not one, not two, but three case studies where material innovation solved performance and manufacturing challenges without changing the device design. So visit devicetox.com to register for free.
And of course, check out all of our other upcoming Device Talks Tuesdays episodes. We have Orthopedic Innovation Week starting November 10th. We have some great Device Talks Tuesdays for you. We have Device Talks Minnesota and Device Talks Boston coming up early in 2027. So a lot to check out. DeviceTalks.com. All right, we have a big episode today, so let's get this podcast started.
Kayleen Brown (02:26)
Chris Newmarker, welcome to your segment, Newmarkers Newsmakers. How you doing, my friend?
Chris Newmarker (02:29)
Hey. Good to Good to be
here, Kayleen. Doing well. Doing well. my gosh, it's a new era. Like here we are. Like Yep. It's a new era. Be good.
Kayleen Brown (02:40)
A new era but an era
that continues to maintain our mission and our mission as always is just to help the industry build better devices. So I'm glad that we get to continue
Chris Newmarker (02:50)
Yeah, absolutely.
Kayleen Brown (02:51)
that mission together.
Chris Newmarker (02:52)
Me too. I'm just so excited and you know, I I I I I feel like we I mean, I know that that this this podcast has done a you know, d just incredible amount of good for the industry and this is so exciting we can like keep this going for everybody.
Kayleen Brown (03:09)
Yeah, I I mean I couldn't agree more. So it's gonna be really fun. And I know that we already talked about having the other editors joining us on the pod here moving forward. So we're gonna get a lot of really great voices
Chris Newmarker (03:22)
Absolutely.
Kayleen Brown (03:23)
and we're gonna just continue to bring that mission home to our device talkers and everybody in MedTech. But I couldn't do it last week because somebody, not naming any names but Chris Newmarker.
Couldn't join me on the pod because you were at a
Chris Newmarker (03:39)
Sorry.
Kayleen Brown (03:40)
yeah, you said E A weekend. So I did tell everybody that that was the reason, but I also admitted that I had no idea what that stood for or what that meant, but everybody in Minnesota would. So enlighten us. What's E A weekend?
Chris Newmarker (03:54)
If if you have school aged children in Minnesota, you know what MEA weekend is, which is basically that the like ha like the teachers all across the street state take half a week off, you know, so that their union, the Minnesota Education Association, could have a a big conference in in Saint Paul. And so this is a great opportunity in the late fall to basically if if you have the means, take the family on a vacation. So
So we were going on a vacation and I I tell ya, I mean, like we were we went to Northern California for a week, had a great time in San Francisco, went down the the coast, and but it was like really funny, like the the Saturday evening flying back after all that, like the the plane was full of children. So I mean like a bunch of other people had the same idea as us. There's like it was just full of families coming back for vacations. My oldest son, like two of his
Two of his best friends were both at Disney World that week. So a lot of lot
Kayleen Brown (04:54)
Wow.
Chris Newmarker (04:54)
of trips, a lot of vacations. So like you you hear a lot of if you're at vacation destinations elsewhere in the country, you hear a lot of people over pronouncing their their O's that that week 'cause a lot of Minnesotans are getting out of the state with their families and stuff. But now we're we're I'm rested and ready and here we are. We can do the new markers newsmakers. Here we go. Woo! Yeah.
Kayleen Brown (05:15)
Well, I'm so happy to have you back. let's start
with the the countdown, the final countdown.
Chris Newmarker (05:23)
do it. I love that. That's great.
Kayleen Brown (05:25)
I actually nailed it. I was like, I'll edit that out if I didn't nail it, but I nailed that.
Chris Newmarker (05:27)
You n you nailed that. No, you keep that in. You better keep that in.
Kayleen Brown (05:32)
That's gonna be my only claim to fame for this entire segment.
So, with that
sweet sentiment, Chris,
Kayleen Brown (05:38)
let's just start with number five. So what do we need to know about the CMR Surgical Striker Robotics Partnership?
Chris Newmarker (05:45)
Okay. Well, you know, we had this news last week, so I'm kinda like pulling some top stories from you know the last two weeks, you know, just just so that you know people don't miss out. this was this is like a four hundred million dollar deal with CMR Surgical for US rights to sell its Verseus Plus system. and you know, Stryker also has an exclusive option to buy the robotics developer.
I mean this story would have been like a number one any other time. I mean, but we just have so much news to report today. But I mean, there has been speculation for years now, like when is Stryker gonna get into soft tissue surgical robotics. I mean, their Mako systems are like dominant in orthosurgical robotics and I I this is it. I mean it looks like they've got this deal to distribute, CMR surgical system. I mean CMR surgical system has been kind of this this
Hope they like me saying this, the feist they've been kind of this feisty British company that's been kind of like, you know, looking to make plays and like, you know, the ambulatory surgery cent center space or whatever with, you know, this kind of like versatile, you know, Versius plus platform and obviously Stryker likes what they see and this seems to be part of their story of how they're gonna be you know, competing in this space going forward.
Kayleen Brown (07:04)
is that what you see it as a play to be competitive in the robotic space?
Chris Newmarker (07:09)
Absolutely. I mean Stryker's already, you know, huge when it comes to like orthopedic surgical robotics, like where you're using robots to, you know, you know, basically reduce errors in like knee surgery or hip surgery. But, you know, like you know, now this is like a soft tissue surgical robot. I mean and Stryker definitely is like a lot more than just an orthopedic device company. They're, you know, an orthopedic and surgical device company. And so this is like
Yeah, this is here they are, they're they're getting exclusive distribution rights to like a soft tissue surgical robotics system. you know, and and it's not something I mean it kind of it might compete a bit with it c it kind of competes with intuitive, but it's also like something that can like play in places where intuitive wouldn't be because h intuitive is like really big in hospitals. So this it this is like a major giant med tech now.
Like, okay, this this seems to be like a like a part of the story of what they're gonna do to to compete in that space and they've they've always been I even saw some of the the LinkedIn posts out of AdvaMed were, you know, you know, saying that you know, we had you know, Kevin Kevin Lobo who's, you know, now gonna be retiring at Striker, but I mean even him he was like kinda like saying, stay tuned about, you know, soft tissue surgical robotics, you know, what we're gonna do in that and yeah, th this is it.
Kayleen Brown (08:30)
Do you see it being competitive to Jane J. Medtex Ottava?
Chris Newmarker (08:35)
yes. Yeah. I mean this could be yeah, absolutely. I mean and and CMR has been kind of this smaller company, so I mean that has
Kayleen Brown (08:43)
Right.
Chris Newmarker (08:44)
been kinda like a question, like how are you gonna compete against a Medtronic or J and J who are also trying to do you know, some ha have some C similar strategic plays and now it's like, okay, you're you're gonna have this like strategic partnership with Striker that could, you know, that has this option that, you know, that that
Striker could even buy them down the road. So so now it's like, okay, there there we go. This is you know, so I mean and I I've always been like a huge fan of competition. I think competition begets innovation. I mean th this is great.
Kayleen Brown (09:16)
Totally agree.
Chris Newmarker (09:17)
It's just awesome to see see even more competition now in the space. I mean this is just like so fun to cover surgical robotics right now. Yeah, I know. Yeah.
Kayleen Brown (09:24)
It is fun. All right. Well, let's keep the fun going.
I'm looking at number four and we have another development in what I would consider a trend. walk us through what we need to know
Chris Newmarker (09:37)
Yeah, absolutely. so we had intuitive earnings out. Our you know, new senior editor Connor Hale you know, covered intuitive earnings. you know, they they took a a hit on their stock on, you know, li there's a little bit of a slowdown the growth of their US procedures with Da Vinci, but you know, I I think another big thing that affected their stock was that they announced that they're gonna settle a years long class action
antitrust suit that was you know filed by health providers against them. They're gonna pay they're not admitting wrongdoing, but they're gonna pay like four hundred and fifty million dollars. And this was about health providers claiming that intuitive was you know stifling competition among you know aftermarket service providers, you know, that you know would you know basically making itself like the def de facto exclusive repair provider for Da Vinci machines as instruments. I mean
Sure, there could be other companies that could try to compete in that space, but they were just basically claiming that, you know, that Intuitive was just engaging in practices that was that were, you know, that was enabling it to pretty much make it the exclusive repair provider. But at this point they're with the health providers, they're they're settling the suit. And there's more suits that are continuing to go on around Intuitive. I mean, there was like a parallel suit that I've covered in the past that was filed by an Illinois outfit called
surgical instruments service company. a, you know, federal judge in California ruled in favor of intuitive, but then it went to the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit and they reversed it. So now that's heading back to the, you know, to the US district court. And then we have another suit that was filed by an outfit called Restore Robotics Repair. And that's on repeal in the eleventh circuit. So I mean this is going to be ongoing. And then yeah, it's definitely it's, you know
three I I you know, there's an old phrase from like all my years, you know, in journalism like, you know, you know, three things make a trend. And I mean, my gosh, I mean Medtronic you know, lost a you know, an antitrust suit filed by applied medical resources. you know, so kind of saying that, you know, Medtronic was, you know, using bundling practices to monopolize the, you know, US market competition.
And, you know, J and J's Biosense Webster. Like we had a you know a story in twenty twenty five about, you know, about a one hundred forty seven million dollar verdict against them. And that was another you know, antitrust case. That one filed by a cardiac mapping catheter reprocessor saying again, like J and J was in using its size to engage in anti competitive practices. So I mean I it really seems like we've got this really
this trend going on of like kind of these David versus Goliath lawsuits where these like reprocessors and repair people and whatnot are are you know, they're they're being able to like success ha sh you know, find some success with antitrust arguments against the the really big med techs and it's gonna kinda change change it could could change the dynamic of how, you know, med tech companies like operate, like in
know, in the United States, maybe even elsewhere. Yeah.
Kayleen Brown (12:57)
Wow.
I mean that's that's really interesting and we'll just keep an eye on it. I'm gonna back away from that story and I'm gonna move us into number three. Okay,
Chris Newmarker (13:07)
Okay.
Kayleen Brown (13:08)
so Johnson and Johnson MedTech. talk let's talk about their ortho spin-off. What do we need to know?
Chris Newmarker (13:13)
Yeah.
Yeah. So I mean we had their earnings requ you know, report out as well. I mean, we're now like in the thick of a a quarterly earnings season. This is it's always a you know, four times a year we're like like just getting through all these like earnings reports that are coming out and you know, J and J, they s they've now set a mid twenty s twenty seven target for a you know, a spin off of their DePew syntheses orthopedic orthopedic business.
You know, so we'll be you know, watching out for what happens with that. But hot off the presses just today.
Kayleen Brown (13:46)
Ooh, late on me.
Chris Newmarker (13:47)
I know. Connor, you know, we we caught a Financial Times story. I mean it's gossipy. Who knows if it's true? But I mean it's always fun, like the you know, the financial press, they'll like have like these anonymously sourced articles about what's going on with mergers and acquisitions. And the Financial Times was saying that that they were all that
Totally rumors, but that like J and J was near the end of getting a merger done between DePew and Smith and Nephew. And that
Kayleen Brown (14:19)
No
Chris Newmarker (14:20)
yes, that would have like created like this huge you know, I mean DePew is already a huge orthopedic device company, but you would
Kayleen Brown (14:27)
Yeah.
Chris Newmarker (14:27)
have had like Smith and Nephew merging with it, and then it was just like a disagreement over who should be the CEO, like like derailed it at the last minute.
which who knows if it's true, but that's just that'd
be that's pretty wild. and and Bloomberg a few weeks ago was like saying also an honestly source that it could have been a private equity deal. That th there was some kind of private equity thing in the works. But I think this is gonna be really interesting to follow. I mean, 'cause I mean and like I'm wondering like what's next? Like what are we gonna hear next in the whole
financial markets rumor mills about like what's going on with this deal. But I mean, we have like a multi billion dollar orthopeak device company that's getting spun out in some way. Like what's you know, w where it's gonna go. It's yeah, it's gonna be really interesting to follow and and and fingers crossed. I mean, okay, if they f actually do what they're now what they were saying in the earnings report, like, okay, we're gonna do a spinoff, it's gonna happen in mid twenty twenty seven. I mean, just here's the hoping that
You I mean DePew's growth has been kinda slow in recent years. Hopefully it's like as an independent company they can kind of have some more focus and we can, you know, see them kinda like get some get some more mojo and and grow more 'cause they're such an iconic brand in in the industry.
Kayleen Brown (15:39)
let's shift over to number two. So Abbott spinning out their nutrition business.
Chris Newmarker (15:44)
Yeah, everybody's doing this. It's like I mean it's almost like phases. Like I've been covering the industry like long enough. Like sometimes we have phases where everybody's like gobbling up things and growing. And then now we're in this phase where everybody's like, boy, like uncertainty in the world. You know, we need to be more focused. Like why do we maybe this should be spun off so that we can focus more on some of these other core things. And and the Abbott now has decided to do this. you know, so this was like news that I caught at the start of this week that
Abbott announced in their earnings report that they're going to spin out their nutrition business. So I mean this is like a a business that makes all kinds of like, you know, supplement drinks as well as baby formula. I mean, I
Kayleen Brown (16:26)
Right.
Chris Newmarker (16:27)
I mean I I don't know about about you, we've used some Similec in the house in the past, you know, with the kids. So I mean yeah, I mean so there's some iconic brands here like Insure, Similec, these are all gonna
Kayleen Brown (16:37)
Yeah, I was gonna say Nsure.
Chris Newmarker (16:39)
Yeah. I mean these are all gonna become an independent company now and it's gonna like Abbott's gonna become much more focused on like kind of it's like medical devices and as well as diagnostics. I mean they've brought exact sciences and those Kohguard tests under their tent now. So I mean that's g that's gonna be a bigger part of what they do. So so yeah, we'll be following how things go with like spinning off that nutrition business.
Kayleen Brown (17:05)
say I mean candidly I didn't really even know the depth of the Abbott nutrition business until I learned about the spin-off but anytime I think that you can hyper focus you just end up with better outcomes so I'm I'm
Chris Newmarker (17:18)
Yeah.
Kayleen Brown (17:19)
pretty encouraged by this
Chris Newmarker (17:20)
Yeah, me too. I mean it's it's se it's at least the the the markets seem to be taking it well, the analysts seem to be taking it well that you know, it that that this seemed like a good good strategy for for focusing.
Kayleen Brown (17:32)
Excellent. So our number one position is held by Medtronic. I'm not gonna give anything
Chris Newmarker (17:36)
Yeah.
Kayleen Brown (17:36)
away. Bring us home.
Chris Newmarker (17:38)
Yeah, and number one on the list, yeah, from Medtronic. I've I've found over the years like that like one way, you know, you can really like find out some interesting things if you just read through the financial filings with the the SEC, and in this case this was me earlier this week.
you Medtronic File and 8K had a number of different items in it, you know, and I'm just reading through it and like right in the middle of it's like, and we've promoted this executive to be president of the company. And I was I was like, well, that's news. That's really news. And and you know, generally I mean nothing nothing from Medtronic on this, by the way. But I mean generally when a publicly traded company like, you know, takes
s promotes somebody up to a president spot reporting directly to the CEO. I mean that can generally that's kind of an indication of where the company is, you know, what what what they're thinking succession wise when, you know, when the CEO
Kayleen Brown (18:39)
Interesting.
Chris Newmarker (18:40)
ends up, you know, retiring or leaving. Like if if the board decides to go the let's promote from insight for the the CEO job spot. So I mean that this is something that, you know, people pay attention to that
that you know like okay now somebody's been promoted up to to the president role inside the company. And you know in this case this is Mike Marinera who you know has you know he's been you know with Medtronic now for you know he's he's he's a veteran of the company, started out as you know a Boston-based territory sales manager back in 2000, worked his way up in the company you know
did did a lot of roles in the cardio side of the business, but most recently he was EVP and president of the MedTech Giants medical surgical portfolio, has been playing a role with you know managing what's going on with the Hugo robotic surgery system, which is I mean that Mittronic has a lot of you know hopes pinned on like the system really enabling it to compete against intuitive in that space. So you know so now you know Mike is you know gonna be president of the company
You know, and and it's kind of interesting too. He's based in he has a lot of roots in Boston, based in Boston, so you know, I think it's gonna make the like Minnesota versus Boston Met Tech Hub debate even more fun that, you know, now he now they have kind of like a kind of like a number two executive in the in the company who's like, you know, based in in that in that Boston hub. So you know, it'll be it'll be fun.
Kayleen Brown (20:12)
Well maybe he's bringing you
both together, Boston and Minnesota.
Chris Newmarker (20:15)
There you go. There you're right. Just bringing the boss
and Minnesota together and yeah, and we and we have a request out with Metronic to get to get Mike on this this podcast at the future. Dana, we'd love to have love to have him on here because I think it would just be really neat just to hear from him and you know, his perspective on Hugo and you know, really like where where he sees, you know, you know, the the world's largest med tech company going in the future. so he's he's he's playing a really big role in that company.
Kayleen Brown (20:42)
Well, we love Mike here at Device Talk. So we're excited for him and best of luck. And hey, Chris,
we did it. We did, we, we
Chris Newmarker (20:50)
Yeah, we did this.
Kayleen Brown (20:51)
did the final countdown. We went five to one. I missed you last week, so very happy to have you back.
And all I can really say is that I think what we do matters. I appreciate you more than I
Chris Newmarker (21:02)
Two.
Kayleen Brown (21:03)
can possibly communicate.
Chris Newmarker (21:05)
Back at ya, yeah.
Kayleen Brown (21:06)
I hope we just can continue sharing these medtech stories and the timely news and why it matters for industry for as long as as long as medtech will have us.
Chris Newmarker (21:16)
Exactly. Yeah. As long as long as they'll let us. We'll get, you know, some other people in the team too to, you know, stop by and and and do these as well. So we'll you know, like we we've built like a fantastic team here over at, you know, Device Talks and Mass Device and and it'll be it'll great great for people to hear from, you know, everybody on our team, you know, on this
podcast. So thanks again, Kaylee, and we'll we'll talk again soon.
Kayleen Brown (21:38)
All right, Dun Deal, have a great weekend.
Chris Newmarker (21:40)
You too.
Kayleen Brown (21:42)
Before we get into our keynote interview, I'm excited to bring you this episode's FOMO.
Kayleen Brown (21:49)
Hello and welcome. I'm Kayleen Brown, managing editor for Device Talks, and this is another episode of the Future of MedTech Opportunities.
Today we're gonna be talking about the future of pulse field ablation and intravascular lithotripsy. Today my guest is Andy Hansen, Global Director of Engineering for ATL Medical. And thank goodness for that, because I have a lot of questions. Andy, welcome to the podcast.
Andy Hansen (22:11)
Well, thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here today.
Kayleen Brown (22:15)
So we both know that pulse field ablation and intravascular lithotripsy have generated tremendous excitement. What I'm trying to understand, Andy, is why are these technologies getting so much attention right now? Can we start with PFA?
Andy Hansen (22:29)
Yeah, I think the attention that PFA is getting in the market is it's changing the way that physicians are able to treat their patients. with PFA, physicians are able to treat difficult diseases more effectively. They're able to use short, high voltage electrical pulses to create electropuration in cardiac cells rather than the historical way of ablating using
Heat and freezing the tissue. It's exciting because it allows physicians to create effective lesions quickly, much more quickly than what they have historically have been able to do. It's reducing the impact on nearby tissues, on the blood in the vessels. It's also creating opportunities for different catheter designs and new ways of delivering the therapy.
Kayleen Brown (23:22)
What about IVL?
Andy Hansen (23:24)
IVL addresses a different but equally difficult problem. Heavily calcified coronary and peripheral vessels, they just stay stuck. But with IVL, it's able to convert electrical energy into controlled acoustic pressure, waves that are able to fracture calcium in the vessel.
Before a balloon or stent is fully deployed, making the tissue more pliable and able to expand. It's really exciting because it helps the device do what it's intended to do and not be blocked by the physical and physiological constraints that a particular patient may have. So while the technologies are different between PFA and IVL.
The value's similar. They give physicians a more controlled way to treat difficult anatomy with the potential to improve efficiency, consistency, and safety for the patient.
Kayleen Brown (24:27)
let's talk about the fact that both technologies rely on sophisticated energy delivery. So what engineering challenges do you think manufacturers will need to solve?
Andy Hansen (24:38)
I think the biggest challenge is getting that energy delivery, the electronics, and the miniaturization to work together in a device that has to perform the same way every time. With PFA, you're sending very precise, high voltage pulses through a flexible catheter. So you have to manage the signal integrity, electrical isolation and patient safety all at once. It gets
Harder and harder as electrode counts go up, as catheter profiles get smaller. You also have to think about the heat, the insulation, the cable performance, and how the generator, catheter, and mapping systems all interact together. IVL presents a different set of challenges. You're converting electrical energy into acoustic pressure waves.
That needs to fracture calcium without damaging surrounding tissue or compromising the catheter. That means carefully controlling the emitters, fluidics, balloon performance, material, and energy transmission In both cases, strong test methods are essential at the component, subassembly, and finished device levels.
So it's not really about designing one good catheter or one good generator. It's about understanding and verifying how the entire system behaves under real operating conditions and setting up your system and your manufacturing to do that consistently And not just building one or two, but building thousands and tens of thousands.
Because market adoption is coming. We will need to have a steady supply to meet the demands in the market.
Kayleen Brown (26:22)
So where do you see the greatest innovation opportunities in these markets?
Andy Hansen (26:26)
In PFA, I expect to see more advanced catheter shapes, higher density electrodes, and better ways to assess tissue contact and confirm lesion formation. Over time, procedural data may also help physicians tailor energy delivery to the individual patient based on their specific anatomy. There's potential to move beyond AFib or atrial fibrillation into areas such as ventricular tachycardia.
And severe premature ventricular contractions. Although each new indication will require its own evidence and a careful optimized approach, I think there's plenty of opportunity in the market to expand those indications to better serve our patients and the user base. With IVL, I think the opportunities include lower profile devices, better deliverability through difficult anatomy, and broader vessel size coverage.
And a more precise control of energy delivery. Across both platforms, sensors, connectivity, device identification software could provide real-time feedback the physicians do not have today. Materials innovation will matter too, because it can it can enable smaller profiles and more complex assemblies without sacrificing reliability. Ultimately, the most valuable advances I see.
We'll expand what physicians can treat and give them better information during the procedure to have better clinical outcomes.
Kayleen Brown (27:58)
as these technologies mature, then how important is manufacturing scale to successful commercialization?
Andy Hansen (28:06)
scale is so critical because clinical success doesn't automatically become commercial success. Many companies fail because they can't scale. Early builds often rely on highly skilled technicians.
specialized equipment and a fair amount of manual adjustments. That may work during development or during an initial clinical study, but it becomes very difficult to sustain once demand starts growing. The challenge is to make the process more repeatable, measurable, and efficient without changing the performance that produced the early clinical results. At ATL,
We help customers prepare for that transition through design for manufacturing, process characterization, validation, automation, and global production transfer.
I also look closely at needing to make sure that we have supplier readiness, tooling capacity, test systems, throughput, looking at our yields, our critical material availability. Cause one constraint in any of those can limit the output of the entire program and impact the ability to get components and devices to a doctor to treat.
Real clinical needs. So our vertical integrated footprint can simplify that coordination and give customers options for regional production and business continuity as volumes grow. The real measure of successful scale-up is whether every unit performs as it's intended, even while the outputs increase. Costs become more sustainable and supply remains dependable.
Kayleen Brown (29:56)
That was really helpful. Now we can't have an episode of the future of medtech opportunities without looking toward the future. So that being said, as you look toward the future of MedTech, Andy, what do you and ATL find most exciting about technologies like PFA and IVL?
Andy Hansen (30:13)
Yeah,
what's most exciting to me and ATL Medical is the opportunity to help turn a breakthrough therapy concept into a product that can reach more patients. You know, there's a lot of clinical needs out there. And I find it so exciting to be a part of meeting those clinical needs in how I design and how I build sustainable products.
That can impact patients, impact family members. Technologies like PFA and IVL are changing what physicians can do. But moving from a promising concept to a commercially viable product, it requires a different set of capabilities. The OEMs, they own therapy vision and clinical strategy. And we at ATL can help translate that vision into a device architecture.
A manufacturing approach that can be executed consistently. The earlier we're involved, the more opportunity we have to work through design trade-offs, identify production risks, and create a practical path through development, validation, and launch. That collaborative role is what interests me the most. We're not simply waiting for a finished device and then building it. We want to help customers make the decisions needed.
To turn an innovative therapy into a reliable commercial product, something that can really have impact in the market and have commercial outcomes that meet the investor's needs. Being part of that process and ultimately helping expand patient access is what makes these technologies so compelling to myself and the organization I work for.
Kayleen Brown (31:59)
Thank you so much. Andy Hansen, Global Director of Engineering, ATL Medical. Thank you so much for joining us on the future of MedTech Opportunities.
Andy Hansen (32:08)
You're so very welcome. Thanks for having me today.
Kayleen Brown (32:10)
And for our audience to learn how ATL Medical can support the development and scalable manufacturing of advanced energy platforms, please connect with the ATL team at www.atlmedical.com. please connect with Andy on LinkedIn. It was such a joy. Thank you again.
Kayleen Brown (32:27)
And now I bring you our keynote interview.
Kayleen Brown (32:32)
Joanna Nathan, CEO and co-founder at Prana Surgical. Welcome to Device Talks Weekly.
Joanna Nathan (32:37)
Thanks so much for having me, Kayleen.
Kayleen Brown (32:39)
And I really should have said actually, welcome back. This is not your first time
Joanna Nathan (32:42)
Yeah.
Kayleen Brown (32:43)
on the podcast. I know that I wanted to invite you back, but I'm so glad that you said yes. And Joanna, in addition to being, I'm gonna call you now a regular, we
Joanna Nathan (32:52)
Yeah.
Kayleen Brown (32:52)
have had many people actually recommend that I have you on the podcast. Most recently features Capitals Jenny Barba. She said specifically in her interview that I have to get Joanna Nathan, a Pranasurgical, on the podcast. So
Jenny, this is for you and to everybody else who said we need to get Joanna on the podcast. I'm giving you what you want and what I want, what we all want. So thank you for being here is the long-winded way of saying that.
Joanna Nathan (33:20)
Absolutely.
Yeah. And and yeah, great to hear that people recommending me, of course, but also great to be here. I think it was probably about three years ago, not to the day, but close that that we were on here. just as part of kind of MedTech Innovator and other things like that. And at that point I was getting ready to go to AdvaMed for MedTech Innovator So yeah, great to have a full circle
moment, I guess.
Kayleen Brown (33:40)
I love a full circle moment definitely. And I remember when we did get to learn about Pronus Surgical right before the adamid showcase, the kind of the final around it. So I'm really interested in what's happened in the last three years. Let's start maybe
Even before that though, Joanna, because I've gotten a chance to know you, our audience probably doesn't. So
let's start with MedTech. How did you become one of us? How did you find
your way into MedTech?
Joanna Nathan (34:07)
Yeah, I, you know, I've been wanting to do something this world since I was like 14, 15 years old. So you know, 20 plus years of of loving this field and wanting to help patients, not as a physician, because I knew quite early on that was not my calling, but as a technologist and innovator. So I you know, I'm a bioengineer by training and went to Rice University here in Houston where I'm based now.
And I've spent the last, you know, 15 years since my degrees really building early stage companies, building helping build part of the life science ecosystem, you know, and spending most of my time, most of that time dedicated to advancing kind of medical technologies. and that's kind of culminated in in where I am today with with Prana. But there were a lot of really interesting stops along the way.
Kayleen Brown (34:55)
Enlighten us. Tell us at least about a couple of those stops.
Joanna Nathan (34:56)
Sure.
Yeah, yeah. so my first job kind of out of school was really, you know, in the hallowed halls of Texas Heart Institute. you know, where Denton Cooley and, you know, huge, huge names like that that are so important to, you know, the history of kind of cardiac medical technologies in particular were developed. And I I worked for an electrophysiologist by the name of Mehdi Razavi, who
is a serial innovator and serial inventor and you know worked developing technologies in his lab and really fell in love with the concept of working on a medical device. I think some of the reason I ended up in med device and not let's say biotech or or pharma or something else, you know, was I was impatient. you know impatient to get to impact. and I really while in my undergrad days, you know, I spent some time
At the bench and those kinds of things. Like the interesting thing about medical technology is you could build something today that could be in a patient in three to five years, you know. and that piece really, really resonated with me. so went to Texas Heart Institute, helped spin out a company called Seranis in the kind of interventional cardiology vascular space, ran product development there in my 20s, which I don't know if I had any business doing or not, but you know, the the company made
Kayleen Brown (36:17)
Yeah.
Joanna Nathan (36:18)
it all the way through.
patients and and so on and ultimately was acquired, which was great. but then I ultimately realized, you know, even though my training was that of a bioengineer, I really loved the storytelling and strategy aspects of of our world. You know, I really loved watching our CEO at Serranis
Take the same narrative and translate it to physicians or, you know, scientists or investors or, you know, and it's the same story, but you tell it differently,
Kayleen Brown (36:46)
Right.
Joanna Nathan (36:47)
right? Depending on the stakeholders sitting across from you. And that was fascinating to me. And so I went back to business school and then spent some time, you know, on the other side of the table, first with a fund in town here called Mercury Fund, which was a great experience for me, just learning how kind of in a traditional VC setting, like how that works.
and then managing a small portfolio of med tech startups at a J you know innovation center, a device innovation center here in Houston. And that's actually where I met my co-founders for Prana. is they had brought their idea to J and J. It was being co-developed, and you know, at at some point it kind of graduated from that model that was present within J and J. and I got to work with
J and J to kind of spin it out into a new co and and get it going in twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two.
Kayleen Brown (37:39)
My gosh, I love all of that and like i i I kept being like, I wanna follow up on this one, I wanna follow up on this one. So I'm gonna try in no particular order.
Joanna Nathan (37:43)
Yeah, sorry.
Kayleen Brown (37:46)
you had said that you were impatient to get to impact. I'm gonna say that
Joanna Nathan (37:49)
Yes.
Kayleen Brown (37:50)
again, impatient to get to impact. Like I love that so much. That really
Joanna Nathan (37:53)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kayleen Brown (37:54)
I think is a common denominator amongst us here in MedTech that we we are
Joanna Nathan (37:57)
Right.
Kayleen Brown (38:00)
and to be able to see that impact in not just our lifetime, but within a decade is
really phenomenal. And then a couple of other things that you said, but the last one I'm just gonna go to is are you talking about the Texas Medical Center, J and J C D? I've
Joanna Nathan (38:15)
That's right.
Kayleen Brown (38:16)
yeah I actually had the absolute pleasure of early on in my career, one of the first series that I hosted was called Meet the Innovators and I was on site and I got to meet with all of the great innovators and Dr. Billy Cohn and it was one of my
all-time favorite memories. That was I think what established me as knowing for the rest of my life I want to be a storyteller. So that's like maybe a third thing that you said that really resonated
Joanna Nathan (38:41)
Yes. Yes.
Kayleen Brown (38:44)
with you is the storytelling aspect of the industry. So girl, girl, girl, this was awesome.
Joanna Nathan (38:50)
Yeah. And speaking
of storytelling, I mean, it's really tough to beat the master class that is Billy Cohn when it comes to storytelling,
Kayleen Brown (38:56)
Okay.
Joanna Nathan (38:57)
you know. He he was like met for the stage and I think stuck being a cardiac surgeon or settled to be a cardiac surgeon because he does those magic tricks and all of that other stuff
But yeah, he yeah, just you know, being proximal to him through Texas Heart, through CDI, you know, I got to learn a lot about.
really the skill and kind of practice behind storytelling. and just got to watch him and and develop my own version of that. Right. No one can do what Billy does. But yeah.
Kayleen Brown (39:25)
I I'm gonna agree with you, even though I think you're phenomenal at what you do, but you're right. Like there's no other Billy Co. There just isn't. Let's
Joanna Nathan (39:31)
Right. One of one, yeah.
Kayleen Brown (39:34)
I feel like we could spend the next 40 minutes just talking about Billy, but we'll we'll move on. let's
Joanna Nathan (39:37)
Yeah.
Kayleen Brown (39:39)
talk about the specific problem that I think Prana Surgical is trying to solve. So let's just take a step back here. So what is the problem with the way that early lung cancer is being diagnosed and treated today? Let's start there and then we'll shift to Prana.
Joanna Nathan (39:53)
Yeah,
definitely. There's, you know, so many interesting issues with this clinical problem. And, you know, like I mentioned, I was more cardiac. I hadn't spent a lot of time in oncology or surgical oncology. So it was fascinating for me to like really learn about this disease state before diving in even to leading a company in this space. So, you know, lung cancer is the number one cause of cancer death. early detection typically has not been on the table because, you know, for a variety of reasons, including stigma and other things like that.
We have not screened for lung cancer like we do for breast, for colon, for prostate, right? So we are very, as a healthcare system, we are much more prepared and used to seeing lung cancer patients in later stages where there are fewer options. Now, what is really interesting about this time right now is that it's really shifting. and that is because lung cancer screening online came online in 2013 and started being covered by Medicare and started being, you know, basically prescribed to specific high-risk patients.
And those guidelines continue to expand. as a you know, narrow age limit and smoking history, and now that's getting broader, and eventually we think it'll eventually just be an age-based screening, right? so that is one piece of it, is a screening. What is changing about this disease state is screening. The other is just much, much more widespread use of CT, right? So you are in a car wreck and you go to the ER and they're worried about internal bleeding, they're gonna do an abdominal CT.
And something might light up in your lungs at that point. So those are called like incidentally found nodules, incidental findings, right? That is a large and growing market at about 10% each year, just because again, CT is so much more built into our day-to-day practice of medicine than it used to be. So, you know, detecting and finding a nodule or detecting and finding suspicious something suspicious of lung cancer now in the last decade has rapidly transformed this disease state. and it's moved, you know.
It in just a few years, it's moved the survival rate. It's moved how many things we're finding early. And it's just, you know, we're watching the disease state transform in front of us, which is really encouraging. and really you know, important to the story of Prana and why now is the right time to work on what we're working on.
Kayleen Brown (42:10)
some great history and a little bit of connection and history on my end. We actually or I actually lost my father to lung cancer. So lung cancer
has always been really personal to my family and then my mother-in-law actually passed away from lung cancer as well. the exact same kind, which is just kind of wild that it impacted my my partner and myself so much.
So to hear the the hope and encouragement in your voice is another reason why I'm like, med tech, one of us, never leaving, we're the best. Because I mean, that's the all we have, right? Is hope. And it's not just hope, it's hope plus action and solving a real problem. So that kind of in mind, I do want to talk about the prana system. I'm gonna separate that from my question here because we're gonna dig into the system here shortly.
At a high level, though, what
Joanna Nathan (42:59)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kayleen Brown (43:01)
is prana surgical trying?
to change about early intervention to the points that
Joanna Nathan (43:05)
Yeah.
Kayleen Brown (43:05)
you've been making.
Joanna Nathan (43:06)
So detecting a nodule is one thing. Obtaining a reliable diagnosis or going after that nodule and intervening it is a different challenge, right? So I think we've, you know, started to s really solve the problem of detecting these nodules with screening, with incidental findings, with, you know, even blood-based tests, right? liquid biopsy, things like that. However, once you find
have a finding, you have to go do something about it typically. so the problem I space that we exist in is really how do we help figure out what exactly is going on in the lung of a patient that comes in with kind of a smaller earlier nodule? Because again, the disease state is used to addressing things later stage. And so major interventions are more appropriate when a patient is sicker. But when you're still questioning whether a patient is even sick, you kind of have to right size your approach there, right? So
Today's options, there's, you know, bronchoscopy, there's needle biopsy, there's more invasive surgical resection, or a lot of these patients get stuck in what's called CT surveillance, which basically means you can't you might might have had a funding finding, but it's not high risk enough or large enough or you know, whatever it is enough to justify the interventions that exist today. Or the interventions that exist today may not do a good job with with
determining what is going on. And so these patients get stuck in what's called CT surveillance, meaning they come in every six months for a CT and, you know, hope and pray it hasn't grown or progressed in any way, right? And so again, these small nodules are really difficult to access, really difficult to sample accurately, even if you do go in surgically, they're hard to palpate and find, right? So what happens a lot is with like less invasive methods, you get
you know, non-diagnostic or indeterminate indeterminate results from biopsy. And if you go in surgically, a a surprising number of them end up being benign. So now you've lost a substantial chunk of your lung. So 15 to 20% is typically benign. so you've lost a significant chunk of your lung and the quality of life associated with that for a benign finding, right? So really that's that's the problem space we're trying to solve is what's between these two options because there's got to be a better answer than than those two, you know, buckets. So yeah.
Kayleen Brown (45:30)
I have again like 8,000 questions that come from that.
if you are right sizing, how do you right size the option for intervention when you do have a finding?
Joanna Nathan (45:43)
Yeah. So what I like to compare our procedure and our device to is lumpectomy, right? So if in breast cancer, for example, for decades and decades you had a mastectomy. you know, so most of your breasts basically removed, regardless of the size, tape, type, or stage of like what was found. And then once mammography became standard of care in the 70s, we very quickly found right-sized options like lumpectomy for the breast, right?
because again, we were shifting the disease to finding things earlier and smaller. That shift is happening in lung in lung cancer right now. And so what prana is trying to do is bring the option of a lumpectomy to lung surgery. So we're trying we've developed a way to precisely localize and excise the nodule while maximizing preservation of the surrounding healthy lung tissue. so you know, initially we're primarily looking at
Supporting
tissue diagnosis through removal of the lesion itself, right? But in the long run, we have a vision for this to be an option that could actually treat lung cancer as well. So our goal here is really to expand the tools available to clinicians as lung cancer detection shifts towards smaller and earlier stage lesions.
Kayleen Brown (47:00)
that was a really great high level of sort of how it works. I want to dig in maybe more about the key design decisions. Can you take us through some of those design decisions and what what the prana surgical system like looks like?
Joanna Nathan (47:14)
Yeah, definitely. So this is a single-use image-guided bipolar electrosurgical tool. so it's very similar, intentionally built to look and feel very similar to other electrosurgical instruments that thoracic surgeons are using in the OR every day today. the key difference is we built build localization, access, and excision all into the same kind of tool, essentially, or same, you know, set of tools.
So we use CT imaging initially to identify and localize the target nodule. And then once that procedure, part of the procedure is done, the rest of it can actually be done blind over a wire that has been like localized to that nodule essentially. And so our device goes in and excises that this core of lung tissue kind of containing the nodule. In terms of like kind of design challenges and design thinking.
You know, the lung is a very challenging tissue and organ to work with, is what I've learned. It's, you know, soft, deformable, extremely vac vascularized and filled with air, right? So think about like a balloon filled with like wet sponge, like and trying to cut into that. So there's the challenges of like just cutting and sealing that tissue. There's the challenges of targeting accurately in the lung, just because again, there's very few imaging modalities that can can view the lung.
It at appropriately high enough resolution that you can target with it. And so we had surgeons and I, interventional radiologists, from day one kind of helping inform the design thinking behind the system so that we could build something that worked within existing workflows and then maintained precision again, because the whole value prop of our device is precision, right? Throughout the procedure. So some of the trade-offs we had to think about were.
You know, the same things everyone has to think about, like device performance versus manufacturability and cost, right? you know, larger sample, but that means a larger incision. How do we feel about that? you know, how many different features do we add versus ease of use? So these are all the trade-offs we kind of have to think about, but they're largely, you know, for the most part, the same trade-offs that any surgical device comp kind of company is thinking about. I think for us, the the broader kind of lesson from the development process of the device.
has really been, you know, the best kind of technical solution is not necessarily the one that integrates most easily into clinical practice or workflow. And there's you're gonna have to find the right level of compromise between those things to make sure you are balancing kind of technical performance with ease of use and then of course cost and manufacturability. So yeah.
Kayleen Brown (50:00)
You hit the nail on the head when it comes to adapting to current workflow.
What needs to be in place for the Pranus system to become part of the standard care pathway or the standard care
Joanna Nathan (50:12)
Yeah, so there are still, even though we built the device to fit into existing workflows, there's still a decent amount of procedure development that needs to be done when you take those kind of two or three distinct workflows and put them all in the same procedure or same device or same, you know, setting. And so we learned a lot about this in our Frisian Human. we went around this time last year to Melbourne and worked with Dr. Gavin Wright at St. Vincent's Hospital, who was just the best possible
know first in human PI for us. And, you know, what we really learned, I think, through that process was there's a significant difference between controlled preclinical testing and, you know, doing things on the bench in a specific way and actual clinical use. And so we learned a lot about procedural refinement, refinements that we'd have to think about and and institute that would really ultimately impact the performance of our device.
so our initial clinical experience, I think, you know, provided invaluable information about how we combined those workflows into one, essentially.
Kayleen Brown (51:20)
I love that. I I did want to dig into your first in human. So first of all, congratulations. I mean, that's a huge milestone. Huge milestone. you talked a little bit about what you learned from that experience. how are you gonna take, I guess, those lessons into the next iteration of Pranner?
Joanna Nathan (51:38)
Yeah, so I think, you know, the importance of watching a clinician actually use your device rather than just kind of rely on their feedback after procedure is really important. So our whole team was actually present for like the first case. and then we always had a team member present there. So we had a lot of learnings again, mostly on the procedure development piece and how we think about the
you know, the transition from localization to access to excision and and what we can do to set the physicians and the physician kind of physicians brought our teams up for success around that. So I think for me, you know, the the personal experience of watching that first patient undergo the procedure after years of development was huge. But there were also immediately the wheels were turning in the OR, right, as as we were finishing up the procedure about
Okay, here's what we need to do better. Here's where we can like reduce time. Here's where we can provide better instruction to the tech on what to do. And you know, here's how you might want to think about, you know, color coding this on the device so the usability is a little bit easier. so there were a lot of learnings around that that are just impossible to know in advance of actually going and doing that clinical work, right? But
makes it even more important for your team, especially your product development team or or clinical team or whatever, to be present and to be sending those learnings back back home. so that you are developing, you know, know you're getting as much clinical feedback as possible, but also an engineer sitting in the OR is going to give you different feedback than a surgeon using the device, you know? So it was a really great experience to pick up all these
small learnings along the way, and our team is already starting to implement them now as we think about Gen two of our device.
Kayleen Brown (53:31)
I love that so much and it's exactly what I was looking for. So at the very beginning when you were talking about how you found your way into MedTech, you have this the business brain and the business experience and the engineering brain and that experience coming together. So did you go into your clinical trials and the the process that you still have ahead of you with a feedback loop strategy in mind?
Joanna Nathan (53:54)
Yeah, definitely. So we definitely knew we would we would learn from these first 10 patients. We're also gonna learn from the next 50 patients or 100 patients, right? Because we're going from a single site in Australia to multiple sites in the US, right? With this next phase of work for us. And so we're gonna learn what it looks like to do this in different settings, you know, like a community hospital versus an academic center. We're gonna learn what it looks like to do
this with different surgeons that may have different skills, different, you know, practices just based on their own personal practice. but that feedback loop is very much built in. And it's just the easiest way to do that is to have a team member present at at each case, right? And so that is going to be built into our plan for the foreseeable future, as far as making sure we're harvesting as much information as we can out of these early cases so that.
Whenever we do put out the next generation of our device that is gonna be, you know, maybe the more broadly adopted one, that's not just for the early adopters and the early believers, that that tool has been built for, you know, the broadest possible range of users.
Kayleen Brown (55:00)
I love a good feedback loop. I
Joanna Nathan (55:02)
Yeah.
Kayleen Brown (55:03)
have a couple more questions for you about AI, and then we're gonna look into the future. So
Joanna Nathan (55:09)
Sure.
Kayleen Brown (55:10)
I know that you have a lot of experience and a lot of thoughts when it comes or it comes to artificial intelligence, especially in medtech. So the first question I just want it to be kind of more broad, and then I wanna go into how that applies to pronounsurgical.
From your perspective, when is AI appropriate during the development of a new medical procedure? And when is the human-led iteration still essential?
Joanna Nathan (55:34)
You know, I think AI as a tool for med tech development. So, you know, maybe that's research. It might be engineering analysis, it might be supporting documentation. you know, we used it a lot to learn for ourselves about like reimbursement coding because cause that is a whole field unto itself, you know, that a lot of med tech innovators are kind of the pick up along the way. I think
AI provides the opportunity for medtech teams to really increase productivity and and learn across disciplines without having to, you know, substantially increase you know, your reliance on specific experts or increase your headcount or things like that. So it allows lean teams to do things maybe more productively or have access to information in a more accessible way than they would have previously. That is different though. I think the difference that I
like to make is there's a difference between AI that supports our work on the engineering and scientific side and and maybe even on the development side versus AI that independently makes clinical decisions or, you know, is going into regulatory submissions or things like that, going into quality systems, et cetera. So I do think there is a distinction to be made there where you still really, really want human eyes along the way at at every single possible check.
and so you know Prana has an AI policy in place. you know, it's it's something actually investors are requiring now, as as we've we've noticed this year and in in kind of talking to investors.
Kayleen Brown (57:06)
Interesting.
Joanna Nathan (57:07)
And so we have an AI policy in place that basically says what should be used, you know, for AI and what shouldn't be used with AI. And then even just guidelines around even if you use AI, like make sure there's always a check in place or a human.
set of eyes like looking at the final product or things like that. make sure we're not upload uploading proprietary information, you know, all of those kinds of things we have to be thoughtful about. and so yeah, so even as a relatively small and lean team, we do have that in place because it we're not going back, right? We're not, we're not not gonna be using AI. and so I do think it's important for us as MedTech.
leaders and SS MedTech in general to be thoughtful about how we use it and build the appropriate guardrails around how we're using it. Because at the end of the day, what we work on affects patients and their lives, right? So it's really important that we set the right kind of guardrails around.
Kayleen Brown (58:02)
I I just feel like everybody who's listening is nodding their head emphatically right now and saying, Yes, yes, yes.
Let's close this out by looking ahead. what is next for Pranasurgical?
Joanna Nathan (58:15)
A
lot is next for us. I think, you know, it's an exciting time to be in this field of lung cancer because, you know, like we talked about, the growth in CT imaging and screening is just going to continue to identify more and more of these pulmonary nodules early on and create demand for more precise intervention. So I think, you know, my long-term vision for this space is really: how can we move towards more precise, less invasive approaches?
That brings diagnosis and treatment closer together, move them earlier in the patient's treatment, you know, in the patient's kind of cycle, and do that, you know, wherever clinically appropriate. So my hope for Prana is we can be a significant part of that story of enabling precise lung cancer intervention and future treatment options, just as more and more of these patients are diagnosed at an earlier stage. Our opportunity is really to contribute to a future where clinicians can intervene.
earlier on and shift entirely the disease state to being something that is primarily an early stage diagnosis that you know can be managed versus what it is today, which unfortunately for most patients is is you know end of life treatment. so that is my vision for prana is being a part of that entire shift of the disease state to something that is more manageable and and treatable earlier on.
Kayleen Brown (59:41)
Well, again, on behalf of my family and my husband's family, we appreciate all you're doing. So it isn't an end of life sentence as we discussed. You know, it matters. So thank you as usual for being a an amazing member of the medtech industry. Thank you for all you're doing for lung cancer and early intervention for lung cancer.
cannot wait to see what Prana Surgical does next. For our audience who wants to learn more, where can they go?
Joanna Nathan (1:00:11)
They can go to pranasurgical.com or we're very, very active on LinkedIn posting all of our updates and about our team culture and great things like that. And stay tuned for news about our US launch in the coming months.
Kayleen Brown (1:00:25)
Well, I can't wait to follow along. Joanna Nathan, CEO and co-founder at Prana Surgical. Thank you again for joining us on the podcast.
Joanna Nathan (1:00:33)
Thank you for having me.
Kayleen Brown (1:00:36)
And that's a wrap on another episode of Device Talks Weekly. I have to wonder, what did you think about Joanna's idea about right sizing intervention in lung surgery? Find me on LinkedIn, I'm Keeleen Brown, and let me know your thoughts. Who knows what could have been if Prana Surgical's approach was around when my dad was alive? Maybe he'd still be with us. So thank you, Joanna Nathan, CEO and co founder of Prana Surgical. I know that you said you were impatient to get to impact.
And I know I'm not alone in thinking that you're exactly where you need to be. and thank you to ATL Medical's Andy Hansen for being exactly where I needed him to be and for giving us the skinny on the future of PFA and IBL. Huge thanks to ATL Medical for supporting this episode of Device Talks Weekly. Again, to learn more about how ATL Medical works with medical device companies.
Please visit their website at atlmedical.com. That's atlmedical.com.
And if you haven't yet, make sure to click the subscribe button to the Device Talks Podcast Network and follow me, Kayleen Brown, on LinkedIn. While you're there, follow Device Talks as well. Next week, I'm gonna mix it up again and bring you another episode of the Women in MedTech podcast featuring Linnea Berman, president of Neurovascular for Medronic. And for those who know Linnea, you know it's gonna be a good one. Till then, thanks for listening.
